Stupid drop rate of Styr

[mefa]

Is this game any fun for people who don't spend huge chunk of $ ?

I played the Water Dungeon - Insane many many times and all the gold chests are NAIAD!!!

I start to ask myself, either there is no Styr (5*) included in the gold chests anymore or the rate for a gold chest to be a Styr is stupidly low..

For a dragon to be skilled level 16/16 more than 150 Styr 5* is required.

If the rate of 5* Styr is 5% per gold chest, this equals 150*20=3,000 gold chests!!!

If you get 1 gold chest per 2 plays, this equals to 6,000 plays!

If you play 5 times per week and 2 times per day 600 weeks of play is required!

If Water Dungeon appears every other 10 weeks, then it takes 6,000 weeks to get those required Styrs!!!!!

For your information, 3,000 weeks = 120 years!

If this is not stupid then what is this?

[Boop]

The first problem of the term 'stupid' is that you're punching out unclaimed numbers. Where did 5% drop come from? If it's anything like hell, it'd be 26% (as stated by admin)

The next point that you have to tackle is the fact that you're deliberately putting yourself at a disadvantage by failing to mention easy to obtain mechanisms to push yourself forward.

1 - If you're incapable of doing Hell (which we'll assume you are since you only mention Insane), then Insane is very fast to pass. If you're only doing it twice per day that is your own time management as an issue, not the game.
2 - If you are capable of doing it more than twice a day (from a time management perspective), then what is holding you back is that you're failing to capitalise on energy potions, again your own problem.
3 - You need to recognise that maxing out any card is meant to be an extreme challenge, not an entitlement.

The system is fine if you manage yourself correctly.

[Durst]

Also, where is this 150 Satyrs number coming from? Obviously luck is a big factor in skilling up, but even assuming you need a full 7 satyrs for every single skillup, 15*7 is 105.

I don't have the Insane gold chest drop %, but if, as Boop has suggested, we use the 26% chance Midas calculated of getting that gold chest each run, then:

105 chests / .25 gold chests per run = 420 runs
420 runs * 40 energy = 16800 energy
16800 energy / energy per day = 117 days

4 months, with two weeks of water apocalypse at a time, followed by eight weeks of other dungeons, which means 20 months or 1.67 years. It's a rough estimate at best, but it's probably in the right order of magnitude. It doesn't account for epots from war and shop, levelup energy, or any actual dragons you build and sacrifice; is a generous estimate on the number of satyrs needed; and, given that the dungeons do not happen simultaneously, means that at the end of that year and a half, you will have a dragon of EACH element fully skilled up (provided you spend all your time on these dungeons).

I don't think that's TOO unreasonable, given how powerful a full complement of skilled-up 8* dragons would be. That said, when looked at in comparison to panzers (which can be brought down to half the skill cd in a mere fraction of the effort and time it takes to fix up a dragon), we can see exactly how much our metal monstrosities broke the game. Even pre-skillup, panzers deal only slightly less damage and have almost the same cd. Cp makes the dragons competitive, but when you can get a panzer from four runs and it would take a few hundred to build a dragon of the same caliber... well.

[_0nyx_]

Unfortunately for me I've still a long ways to go to even get a 8star dragon to even compete with a "7star" panzer. I was never able to run insane during the era of panzer. I Believe that most of the people capable of farming for enough satyrs to skill up their apparently narcissistic dragons, who refuse to atk for 25turns as soon as they became even a bit powerful, already have far superior panzer dragons. Most, if not some, of these panzer wielders also lived in the era of the Super Sale Bonus Guild Shop where you if you had the points you could get however many of what you want or need. Now adays it is expected a mid lvl66 player such as myself collect 64 2star dragons of the same type one at a time once every 3hours if your ungodly lucky and have no sleep for the next 192hours you can get an 8star dragon. However that's not possible and but you can get lucky in other ways, such as getting gold chests for clear bonus on some lvls that award 4star and lower drags or from a gem draw I've gotten one 4star fire drag, not that I really wanted that at all..., I hear you can get 2star ones from pal recruits but the odds seem far worse than getting a good 6star from gem recruits as I have only picked up 1from my pals ;who only seem to know how to fish. So I Believe I've come to understand that getting an 8star dragon with a maxed skill lvl would indeed take a ridiculously long time. To even get one on par with a raw skill lvled panzer dragon would take a ridiculously long time. This all goes w/o saying I can't even run for 5star satyrs ATM so take your calculations and more then double them because I'm supposed to be stuck with 4star satyrs huh. Shouldn't this game just be renamed Panzer Dragon Era and Why can't Horsemen and dragons just get along and run at the same time. PS the naiads need to be replaced with sthenos and skellys replaced with water spiders seriously that trash doesn't need a biweekly slot it already occupies all of my rewards from RB's to date, all of the maps I have unlocked, hell even my first guild war gave me a me a water skelly. +1 (improving 5star satyr drop rates)

[mefa]

Boop, I should thank you for helping me to understand the logic behind this stupid rate: with supporters like you, playmage can even increase years to centuries!

="Boop"Where did 5% drop come from? If it's anything like hell, it'd be 26% (as stated by admin)
1 - If you're incapable of doing Hell (which we'll assume you are since you only mention Insane),

-From your comment, you already know that I am talking about "insane" then why do you use rate for "Hell"?

-People who are capable of doing "Hell" who already have the "PANZERS" but how without Panzers??

-Maybe people who have all the panzers or even have leveled them don't care a lot...

[Midas]

it is expected a mid lvl66 player such as myself collect 64 2star dragons of the same type one at a time once

You know, mid 66 level player was never close to Panzer dragon, so nothing changed here.
To farm Panzers you need to have two 6* HP cards and some Balance God cards, that will be possible at level 100+

So I don't understand, why you mentioned level 66?

At this level your main task is to create team for successful farming Solomon Mines Hard and getting big amount of gold. Then spend this gold in guild shop to buy 6* cards\potions (Rainbow maps )
And in turn use this cards\potions to farm exp and gain levels.


Only difference now is that you can't get 4* Medusa from Water Apocalypse maps, like it was with Water Panzers.

assuming you need a full 7 satyrs for every single skillup, 15*7 is 105.

You can use only 6 card at strengthening, so you need only 90 satyrs)
Plus you can get them from Pal Points once a month. It will greatly speed up rate of satyr collection

[Durst]

-From your comment, you already know that I am talking about "insane" then why do you use rate for "Hell"?

Because we don't know the rate for insane. No one does, as far as I'm aware.

-People who are capable of doing "Hell" who already have the "PANZERS" but how without Panzers??

Panzers are always an advantage, but this dungeon has, in a very ironic way, evened them out. See I, like you, have 0 panzers. Yet Insane is easy to beat. And whether you have panzers or not, hell takes several revives. In other words, we're all able to beat Insane easily, and we're all getting f***** by hell. So the advantage of having panzers has, via extremes, been largely diminished. I wish I could say I was happy about that.

assuming you need a full 7 satyrs for every single skillup, 15*7 is 105.

You can use only 6 card at strengthening, so you need only 90 satyrs)

I know you can only strengthen with 6 at a time, but that only gives you a 90% chance of success. 1 out of every ten of those will fail, on average. So you need more than just 6 per level. I just threw out the number 7, but if we want to really go into the math:

15*10% = 150%, or one and a half failed strengthenings over the course of 15 attempts at 90% success. Let's take the worst case scenario (two failed strengthenings) and compensate with 12 more satyrs. 81% chance of success, if not you'll have to go back for more. So on average, you should need somewhere in the vicinity of 102 satyrs--my 105 is, as with most of my calculations, a little generous. All of these statistics are, of course, "on average." It's possible to fully level a dragon with 15 satyrs (somewhere in the area of 1 in a trillion attempts should see this), and it's possible to fail with an infinitely large number of satyrs. So these are just generalities.

[Midas]

Good point. I forget about 90% chance of skill level up.
And in 15 level ups it will reveal himself.

[Boop]

Mefa,

The reason why I used the Hell statistic is because it's actually a statistic. The point I'm trying to make is that your 5%, and in relation to 5%, your 120 year claim are just random numbers. Please find facts out from Admin (because we know they happily provide us such information, thus we know what Hell drops are) and then create a reasonable argument. All you've done is made up a random number, and then created a formula based 100% on just you. You have not factored anything else into the equation which is why I made mention of other factors such as time management and energy potions.

This is not a discussion of Panzer vs no Panzer, or Insane vs Hell. This has become a discussion of fact vs fiction, and time management vs laziness.

Don't get annoyed at people trying to help, or shine light on a narrow minded perspective.

[mefa]

1-Thanks for some useful comments: either 102 or 105 or 150, there is a little difference and the clear fact:

"The chance of a gold chest to be a Styr is extremely low"

Result: Dragons usefulness will remain almost the same

Fact: Playmage gave us lots of hope on leveling dragon skills which are deemed unless you spend huge $ and get Styr that way.

2-Unless Admin give a complete info. about facts (not just scattered info.).

All I found about this game: There are lots of formulation rather than simple drop rates.

Clear fact is that I have played many many times and all I got was water fairies, with a very rough estimate YEARS is needed even playing it day and night.

3-Admin, please talk to the design team and give us numbers for "Chance for a gold chest" and "Chance for a gold chest contains a Styr" for insane and hell.