Wonderland of Fire

Re: Wonderland of Fire

Postby Saya » Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:47 am

Thank you Yutyu for the help, your charts is very useful and gives information of making the desired command without spending energy for nothing) ;)
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Re: Wonderland of Fire

Postby vivi » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:16 am

thanks u yutyu..this help so much.
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Re: Wonderland of Fire

Postby Kavelus » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:04 am

mattyb79 wrote:Finally, a post-panzer player actually using logic on this forum! Thank you sir, you deserve an award of some kind. Maybe the "I'm the only low-spending, post-panzer, non-crying about what I don't have, but still enjoy the game" award. Bravo!


Wow I was never expecting an award, I'm so unprepared.. (pulls out acceptance speech).

But seriously, I love playing this game. Actually me and my wife play, and though it gets tough at times, it's a fun challenge to overcome. PM does a good job offering different strategies to the similar situations (for the most part). I have my complaints like anyone else, but it's not worth crying over haha. And handouts don't make any game fun. I'm content in my abilites, and know there is still opportunity in the way I play. The community is great, the admins and devs actually consider comments, and the evolution of the game (that I've seen) is good. Keep up the good work PM.
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Re: Wonderland of Fire

Postby Ragnarok72 » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:34 pm

Kavelus wrote: Personally I think Insane should be only as difficult as free/mild spending players would be able to handle with the help of a friends top tier leader. While the Hell stages should be as they are and only able to be rewarding to those that spend highly and have the highest tier of cards. Those that spend the most definitely deserve the best of the rewards. Free and low spenders should have access to limited cards (by doing Insane) and the big spenders get the best cards (8* limiteds) and skill maxed cards by being able to run Hell. I think the current difficulty is good even though I have my hands tied lol

EDIT: in case you're wondering, I'm post Panzer, but I have all 5 "Horseman."


I 100% agree, but as admin stated some of the stages require skilled panzers (or even maxed panzers) which are even for the top 'post-panzer' players arguably obtainable. Instead stages requiring qotu, pandora or just one or two water panzers would fit this better. At this time u still have major disadvantages between players who've spend the same, just started three weeks later ;)

I do like the fact that u realise u aren't able to finish all the lvls without some spending as some forumers tend to forget that when posting...
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Re: Wonderland of Fire

Postby Kavelus » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:39 am

Yeah, haha. It is what it is I suppose. I enjoy this game a lot, and definitely see the benefits of spending vs not. Just not in a spot spend much hah, so i'll keep fighting anyway. This community is great though and if it wasn't for that I doubt as many of us would hang around. I feel like now days I spend more time reading what's going on in the forum and interacting in the Guild than worrying about anything else (game related that is). Luckily though my GS just produced a Werewolf yesterday so I'll be able to start running these Wonderland again. Only had Snake Spirit and King Sea Serpent till now. So this should allow me to rotate HPs and form new teams.
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Re: Wonderland of Fire

Postby Benjamin » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:43 am

I 100% agree, but as admin stated some of the stages require skilled panzers (or even maxed panzers) which are even for the top 'post-panzer' players arguably obtainable. Instead stages requiring qotu, pandora or just one or two water panzers would fit this better. At this time u still have major disadvantages between players who've spend the same, just started three weeks later ;)

I do like the fact that u realise u aren't able to finish all the lvls without some spending as some forumers tend to forget that when posting...


I think these wonderland cards would be fairly powerful if we could skill them. Unfortunately Hell runs are rpot draining even with panzers, so much so that it makes little sense to bother trying to farm Hell.

A dual dragon queen team with 8* dragons is all you need to make it through hell, panzers might lower the rpot usage but you can make it through without them.
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Re: Wonderland of Fire

Postby yutyu » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:46 am

Benjamin wrote:A dual dragon queen team with 8* dragons is all you need to make it through hell, panzers might lower the rpot usage but you can make it through without them.


What's the point of bulldozing through the waves if you miss out on the chance to pick up valuable gold chests on completion?
The reason anyone would bother spending 50 energy points to do Hell in the first place is for a 7* card if not a Pinocchio.
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Re: Wonderland of Fire

Postby Benjamin » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:19 am

What's the point of bulldozing through the waves if you miss out on the chance to pick up valuable gold chests on completion?


Dual DQ team provides best gold chest/rpot ratio (in my opinion based on my limited card deck). By using a healer and DR I get waxed in wave 1 and wave 3. Yes, my method won't guarantee max chests, but the 50 energy is not an issue compared to the revives.

The reason anyone would bother spending 50 energy points to do Hell in the first place is for a 7* card if not a Pinocchio.


I'm not 100% sure what you are saying here, but yeah you can farm difficult for Pinocchio but I would like to farm the 7*'s.

For example Boop wrote a post about farming White HM hell for his 8* Faith (Word of God), ircc it took him over 200 revives, (using what I'm assuming as a very strong setup). I question whether he (or anyone else) would farm wonderland Hell levels to max the wonderland card, and if they did would they be able to justify doing so with the cost of revives needed.
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Re: Wonderland of Fire

Postby yutyu » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:29 am

Benjamin wrote:Dual DQ team provides best gold chest/rpot ratio (in my opinion based on my limited card deck). By using a healer and DR I get waxed in wave 1 and wave 3. Yes, my method won't guarantee max chests, but the 50 energy is not an issue compared to the revives.

Most of the time (75% by my estimation), Hell give at least 1 Gold Chest per run. The rate to get Gold chest on a spin is a lot lower than a Brown Chest, so normally, you would usually get all your Brown chests and would stall on 5-line spins for a long time to get the remaining Gold Chest(s). So, by trying to save on revives and use a dual Dragon Queen setup would usually mean wasting more revives trying to stall for Gold Chests, or you would end up killing Karen without even getting max chests and that usually means no Gold Chest as well. In the long run, you would end up using a lot of Energy Potions (keep in mind 50 energy is half an energy potion) for a lot of Fairies and Spiders and very very few gold chests that most of the time end up as Pinocchios. If your goal is just to try your luck getting 1 Karen from Hell with the least amount of revives possible, then your way might work but it will be incredibly frustrating and possibly might not even get you a Karen in 2 weeks. Keep in mind, the odds are severely stacked against you so you will spend lots of time and energy potions compared to other people just to get a Karen.

Otherwise, if your goal is to max skill a Karen, then you should try to find the most effective team you can for farming Karen and try to get max chests as many times as possible because that increases your chance of scoring a Karen and because only Karen can help you skill a Karen.

Benjamin wrote:I'm not 100% sure what you are saying here, but yeah you can farm difficult for Pinocchio but I would like to farm the 7*'s.

What I'm saying is that drop rate for Karen is low, so most of your gold chests will end up as Pinocchios. Because of that, farming gold chest in Hell for Pinocchio is actually a good idea.

Benjamin wrote:For example Boop wrote a post about farming White HM hell for his 8* Faith (Word of God), ircc it took him over 200 revives, (using what I'm assuming as a very strong setup). I question whether he (or anyone else) would farm wonderland Hell levels to max the wonderland card, and if they did would they be able to justify doing so with the cost of revives needed.

I followed Boop's journey of max skilling a Faith from the start to the end, he was farming Faith day and night for nearly 13 days just to max skill 1 Faith. That alone requires persistence and discipline. There is a difference that Light Apocalypse is different monster compared to a Wonderland Fire, some of the strategies used are crippled in Wonderland. The main reason he was able to skill a Faith with so few revives is because he has a 5/5 Light Panzer, and that cuts down on the revives usage drastically.
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Re: Wonderland of Fire

Postby Benjamin » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:52 pm

First of all, thank you for you're very well laid out response, you're truly a great member of this community.

Most of the time (75% by my estimation), Hell give at least 1 Gold Chest per run. The rate to get Gold chest on a spin is a lot lower than a Brown Chest, so normally, you would usually get all your Brown chests and would stall on 5-line spins for a long time to get the remaining Gold Chest(s). So, by trying to save on revives and use a dual Dragon Queen setup would usually mean wasting more revives trying to stall for Gold Chests, or you would end up killing Karen without even getting max chests and that usually means no Gold Chest as well. In the long run, you would end up using a lot of Energy Potions (keep in mind 50 energy is half an energy potion) for a lot of Fairies and Spiders and very very few gold chests that most of the time end up as Pinocchios. If your goal is just to try your luck getting 1 Karen from Hell with the least amount of revives possible, then your way might work but it will be incredibly frustrating and possibly might not even get you a Karen in 2 weeks. Keep in mind, the odds are severely stacked against you so you will spend lots of time and energy potions compared to other people just to get a Karen.

Otherwise, if your goal is to max skill a Karen, then you should try to find the most effective team you can for farming Karen and try to get max chests as many times as possible because that increases your chance of scoring a Karen and because only Karen can help you skill a Karen.


It's fairly well proved that the rare gold chest card drops much more frequently in Hell then in Insane. While Karen might drop slightly less often than Pinnochio in Hell the odds are not as drastic as you seem to be implying, I'm guessing 1 of every 3 or 4 gold chests will be a Karen in Hell, and Insane it would be 1 of every 9 or 10. I don't know what the exact odds are but I can quote PM as saying the rare gold chest cards are easier to obtain in Hell than in Insane. I got Karen on my second run through hell, most players I know are able to obtain Karen within ten hell runs. Usually Insane takes many more runs to obtain rare gold chest.

As for you're suggestion on farming Karen. I simply don't see the cost/benefit of even considering it. I'm sure dark and light wonderland might make more sense as Pinnochios from those levels can be used to skill up useful skills but unfortunately moderate fire damage isn't that useful. Unfortunately if you saw my cards you probably would agree with me that dual DQ is the best team for me to use. I'm a PPP and blue panzer can't be used in this map.

Also I'm not sure if I agree with your understanding of how chests drop, I don't think any particular spin is capable of yielding either brown/gold as you suggest but what I've witnessed is that the color of the chests drop in a predetermined sequence initiated with the start of the level, so for example I might get 2 brown chests quickly, grind for a very long time and get a gold chest, then get 2 more brown chests quickly, or maybe I grind for a long time and the first chest I get is gold, then 4 more brown chests very quickly. I usually witness this when running Gem Dragons on difficult. Spinning for a long time till the gold drops then browns follow quickly no matter what position gold chest drops in.

Lastly, I'm fully aware of how Boop was able to max skill a Faith, by being an extremely dedicated player with extremely good cards at his disposal. What I'm asking is if high level players feel it worth farming hell now since it seems the difficulty has increased. If people are farming Pinnochio, what's their preference hell, insane, or difficult? I mentioned Boop's example because I believe I'd be willing to put forward the same amount of revives, also the same amount of time, but I feel the difficulty of wonderland hell is too hard to make this possible.
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